What do you guys think the show would’ve looked like if Lavinia Swire didn’t die? how would she deal with Matthew breaking up with her to be with Lady Mary? Maybe if Lady Mary ended up with Tom, Lavinia would end up with Henry Talbot. Hypothetically speaking of course.
What's on your mind?
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Have any of you seen the 1917 movie? Since season two of Downton Abbey took place during World War I. I wonder what it would look like if while lost behind enemy lines Matthew Crawley and William Mason ended up bumping into Schofield and Blake from the 1917 movie and help them on their mission to save the 1600 lives including Blake‘s brother. Feel free to tell me what you guys think.
In Downton Abbey: A New Era Violet leaves the villa in France to Sybbie because she said that Sybbie wouldn't inherit much unlike George, Caroline, and Peter. But I now wonder what Marigold will inherit. Besides Edith's flat in London and maybe a small portion of money Marigold is basically left with nothing.
My idea for a prequel is to see how Robert and Cora met, maybe even get to see James and Patrick crawley (The ones who went down with the Titanic before the series began!).
Imagine a Downton Abbey murder mystery with Hercule Poirot!
Who do you guys think the victim will be and who will the suspects be?
I wonder what the show would’ve been like if the show’s creator Julian Fellowes had made a cameo appearance on the show.
What kind of character do you guys think he would’ve played?
What do think what would happen to Edith if Gregson hadn’t been killed in Germany? How do think the Crawley family would feel about Edith marrying him?
I wonder what a Scottish Downton Abbey well look like. probably would have a more of a Scottish cast than a British cast. probably just to see how different or similar Scottish and British Aristocracies were.
The cast of a Scottish Downton Abbey.
Rose Leslie as the Earl‘s daughter.
Iain Glen as the Earl.
What do you guys think 🤔
I liked the 2019 movie better. I did not see the 2022 movie. I red the synopsis of the 2022 movie. If you ask me, they should’ve killed the Dowager off screen in between the two movies, instead of on screen in the second movie.
Spin off number one: a prequel to see how Robert and Cora met, maybe even get to see James and Patrick crawley.
Spin off number two: To see Atticus and Rose Aldridge‘s lives in New York, London, England and Canningford Grange, Yorkshire. Also the lives of Rose‘s parents, her siblings and Atticus‘ family as well.
Over the course of the series, Mary emerges as probably the central-most character and not just because she ends up sharing the running of Downton Abbey with her father, Robert. Mary has probably come the furthest of any character in term of her personal development, and though she holds fiercely to tradition, she also embraces--partly through necessity and partly through personal ambition--the independence of thought and leadership forced upon her. One can definitely see her as a Violet-in-training (as Violet says at the end of the first movie), but it took Mary a long road to get there.
In Episode 3.09, Mary gives birth to George, the long-awaited heir to the Grantham dynasty. She has fulfilled her duty and happily so. But, in her final words to Matthew, she says she likes his version of her and not Edith's version of her, and she wants to be more the former than the latter. It's a telling comment. At this point her life, she has defined herself in terms of how other people see her--her father, suitors such as Pamuk and Sir Richard Carlisle, her sister, Edith, and Matthew. She has fulfilled various roles even though those roles sometimes bring out the nasty side of her (e.g., her sibling rivalry with Edith). Her final words to Matthew suggest she would be content to go on being what he expects her to be--his version of her.
But it was not to be.
Matthew's sudden death completely unbalances everything in the world of the Crawley's, and Mary, of course, takes the worst of it. She's lost her husband and one true love only a year after losing her youngest sister, Sybil. She's weathered the storm of potential scandal and the loss of what she believes should be her right to inherit her father's estate (a right to which she was not legally entitled), and now this. A lesser person would have folded. But not Mary.
Mary Crawley Talbot is a study in contrasts. She has deep reserves of inner strength that are made evident from the beginning of the series, but she is also fully aware of the world in which she lives and the expectations thrust upon her as the eldest daughter of an earl. The Pamuk incident remains a potential scandal hanging over her head for years until Matthew asserts that it doesn't make a difference to him. It's only when she finds validation from a man that she is able to let go of her lingering feelings of guilt. A modern woman would be encouraged to find her own inner validation, but Mary is not a modern woman--at least not wholly. The approval of her husband--and of her father--mean very much to her.
Ironically, Matthew's death enables Mary to get what she originally wanted. She becomes "co-captain" of Downton Abbey with her father and finally develops her inner reserves of strength. With Tom Branson as estate manager, she guides Downton Abbey into a world of new ideas that would have been unthinkable to earlier generations. Her decision to open the great house to a film crew receives staunch opposition from Robert and Carson, but Mary recognizes the necessity of it. Money for roof repairs have to come from somewhere.
Eventually, Mary finds love again--sort of. Henry Talbot seems almost an afterthought, a nonentity who fulfills a need in Mary's life--and he doesn't even show up for the second movie. I know the actor was busy elsewhere, but it's interesting how the filmmakers chose to write him out. He doesn't die, like Matthew. He's just off pursuing his own love of cars. But Mary is clearly disappointed. The intense, loving relationship she had with Matthew hasn't emerged in her second marriage. Once again, she is left captaining her own ship alone. But that's where she finds her greatest strength.
What are your thoughts about Mary?
I just re-watched Episode 3.07, in which Thomas, deceived by O'Brien, comes to Jimmy while the latter is asleep only to be interrupted by Alfred and exposed as a homosexual. Thomas is beside himself, realizing that Jimmy never had feelings for him and is also exposed for what he truly is--something everybody had been sweeping under the carpet until now. Until this moment, he had never been so alone or vulnerable.
While Thomas is a difficult character to like, he is certainly one of the most complex and interesting characters on DA. Earlier in the episode, he admits to Jimmy that he puts on a brave front but is never sure of himself. I think this admission is central to Thomas' character. He is always trying to prove he is better than someone such as William or Bates, and he has built walls around himself to keep others out. His closest ally (not really a friend) early on is Miss O'Brien, but their relationship sours after he is promoted to valet. He doesn't have the time of day to coach her nephew, Alfred, on being a footman, and this leads to O'Brien turning against him, setting up the misunderstanding with Jimmy. (Word to the wise: Never get on O'Brien's bad side; of course, whether she has a good side is debatable.)
Amazingly, Thomas recovers from this incident just as he recovers from many other setbacks. He always finds a way to get ahead, sometimes by chance, sometimes by manipulation. In the war, he risks being permanently disabled so he can be sent home. This may be perceived as an act of cowardice, but it can also be interpreted as an act of bravery albeit a self-serving one (and kudos to Rob James-Collier for showing just how scared Thomas was in raising his hand so a German could shoot it). At the end of the series, Thomas succeeds Carson as butler because Thomas has been at the house long enough and served in enough roles that he knows what to do. There's a moment when Carson is asked if Thomas can do the job. Carson's voice cracks a little when he says, "Of course he can. I trained him." This scene shows, I think, a depth to their relationship and to Thomas' overall value to the running of the house than was ever acknowledged before.
The movies are much kinder to Thomas. In the first movie, he finds a love but has to give up that love in the second movie. However, he leaves Downton (after about 18 years of service) to become a valet and companion to a Hollywood actor. It's the stuff of fantasy (as is most of the second film), but I was happy for him.
I've wondered how the gay community perceives Thomas. He's far from a likable character or role model, but he's not a stereotype either. As I mentioned above, he's a man who has built walls around himself to hide who he truly is. He puts on a brave front but is never sure of himself. When he gives notice to Lady Mary, he says that moving to America is a chance for him to live an honest life. I hope he found that honest life.
29 Votes in Poll
In my rewatch, I'm up to episode 3.04, and I think Branson has emerged as my overall favorite character in the series (though I love them all). In 3.04, Branson escapes from Ireland after he has participated in a movement that resulted in the destruction of private property for the Anglo-Irish. He has to leave Sybil behind, though she makes her own way to Downton Abbey.
Obviously, the family deplores Tom's choices, and Robert is especially harsh. But, in a telling moment, Tom responds, "We all live in a harsh world, but at least I know it." (I'm paraphrasing.)
Branson changes the most probably of any character of DA. He starts out as an Irish revolutionary who accepts a position as chauffeur expecting it will be temporary. Along the way, he falls in love with Lady Sybil and waits 2+ years for her to run off with him. For a while, their off-screen romance is ideal, but Tom is committed to freeing Ireland from the oppressive Anglo rulers. This goes horribly wrong for him, and he is forced to give up some of his earlier commitments for the betterment of his family.
I think Sybil was a moderating influence on him. Though it's not stated in episode 3.04, I imagine it was her idea for him to leave Ireland while he could and for her to catch up later. I can't imagine Tom winning an argument with her. Of course, that's not how Papa Bear Robert sees the situation, but that's his loss. A telling moment is when Tom and Matthew both support Edith in the publication of her views on women's suffrage. Tom and Matthew are becoming enlightened; Robert belongs to an earlier generation with more calcified views.
I haven't re-watched the rest of the series yet, but I know how it turns out. I love how Tom evolves from the unwanted brother-in-law to estate manager of DA and ultimately to finding new love. Along the way, he learns to rethink who he is and to become a part of a family he once judged harshly.
In Episode 3.03, Matthew offers to give the money he's inherited from Reggie Swires to Robert so the family doesn't have to move from Downton Abbey. Robert declines; however he does allow Matthew to invest in DA, thereby becoming co-owner. He tells Matthew, "If you don't agree, I will sell and it will be your fault." Matthew agrees, of course, and happily so. Everyone gets what they want--and more.
This scene encapsulates Robert's character for me. In many episodes, he is portrayed as someone who inherited his title, property, and money and never seems to question that environment. He is fair-minded but accepts change only when it is forced upon him. Yet he is also a master negotiator, and we see multiple examples of that skill throughout the series (such as when he buys off the blackmailers of both Carson and Mary). This is one of the reasons I admire Robert as a character and Julian Fellowes' writing of him.
What are your thoughts about Robert?
Over the course of the series, I've noticed that the servants seem to be on call all day. The body servants such as Bates and O'Brien dress their lord/ladyship in the morning and undress them at night. Anna takes care of the house in the morning and undresses Lady Mary at night. And poor Daisy is up before everyone else so she can wake the other servants and is still shown working late at night.
Is such a work schedule for servants realistic or is it a matter of TV series convenience (i.e., the impracticality of hiring different actors to dress/undress his lordship)? I know the servants sometimes take a day or half-day off, and I presume they get a vacation now and then, but, with having to be on call all day, when would Bates and Anna have time to get married and have a child or raise one?
I read with interest the analysis over Lady Sybil's date of birth on her page. It seems there is some confusion or apparent lack of consistency given that she was 24 when she died in 1920 yet the script for the first episode describes her as 17 in 1912. However, I just re-watched episode 1.7, in which Robert tells Cora she hasn't been pregnant in 18 years, alluding no doubt to her pregnancy with Sybil. Episode 1.7 is set in July and August 1914, which strongly suggests that Sybil was born in 1896, not 1895 as listed on her page.
Also, in the same episode, Sybil and her family return from her "coming out" event in London. I'm not sure what the event is called, but wouldn't it have occurred on or shortly after her 18th birthday?
What of the age 17 reference? Details in scripts sometimes change, so, unless her age was mentioned on screen, perhaps it is not canon.
This seriously needs focus on the children, having gotten almost nothing but were "just there" mostly Marigold, as preteens and teenagers in the 1930s and 1940s.
I really wanna know of the teenage Marigold's reaction to discovering her illegitimacy and the tragic murder of her biological father from her mother.
Also, how Marigold is as an elder sister to her younger maternal half-sibling; same for teenage/young adult Miss Sybil Branson, now that she is an heiress in own right.
And how Master George has dealing with his own younger half-sister Caroline and as heir to Downton Abbey, and how these privileged children interacted with their parents and maternal grandparents and their devoted servants and their children, like Johnathon "Johnny" Bates Jr.
Don't you agree on this?
The kids deserved to be recognized! How they would all deal with World War II as either nurses or soldier.
I think Mr. Bates should have cheated on Anna. Would have made for better d r a m a.
I think Edith should have adopted Evelyn Napier